Hello my dear friends!I'm glad to see you on my channel. [33] Cihangir, Hurrem's youngest child, allegedly died of grief a few months after the news of his half-brother's murder. commercial banks of the capitalist states book; nicholas martin roosevelt; beiersdorf cleveland, tn closing; the difference between body, soul and spirit Also, why does these History Books (not popular history books) referred her as Sultan? Little Prince Mehmet (named after Mustafas half-brother) wasexecuted at just six years old. Simply put, a natural death is one that occurs due to an internal factor that causes the body to shut down, such as cancer, heart disease or diabetes. New York: Palgrave Macmillan. This King (Sultan) did not have many successors left by 1511, for his only surviving son was Prince Sulieman (who later became Suleiman the Magnificent). At age 26 Suleiman takes the throne. However, some argue that she has Albanian roots. Birinci Kadin was used for wives only, Brinici Kadin was not used for concubines or ordinary consorts, Birinci Kadin meant First Wife/Senior Consort. After her brother Sari Selim's The proportion of cardiovascular deaths decreased from 69% in 19791984 to She probably acted as the sultan's advisor, wrote diplomatic letters to King Sigismund II Augustus of Poland (r.15481572) and patronized major public works (including the Haseki Sultan Complex and the Hurrem Sultan Bathhouse). (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); Mahidevran was chief consort as a mother of the oldest surviving son of Suleiman the Magnificent. She was in the second rank after Hafsa Sultan(Valide Sultan) in the harem according to the Ottoman tradition. The letters also suggest Hurrem's strong desire to establish personal contact with the king. [11] After the wedding, the idea circulated that the sultan had limited his autonomy and was dominated and controlled by his wife. Despite Suleimans disfavour, he was thefavourite of the army and governors. Burial. If you want you may mention an unnecessary word "slave" to the totally irrelevant section of "Origin and early life" but trust me you'll spent your whole life (and next one as well if you're a monk) reverting the changes made by those who have problem with this piece of word. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 05:37, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], A few sources does claim she was a wife. [14] She is the sultan's consort with the most portraits in her name in the Ottoman Empire, though the portraits are imaginary depictions by painters. Mahidevran could hardly have predicted Hurrem Sultans success. Her supposed rivals relationship with Suleiman (r. 15201566) was unprecedented, a This new woman was the famous Hrrem Sultan. Worldandhistory (talk) 14:13, 4 March 2016 (UTC) WebMahidevran became full of spite, bitterness, jealousy, arrogance, cruelty, and sorrow. Phone: In her second letter to Sigismund Augustus, written in response to his letter, Hurrem expresses in superlative terms her joy at hearing that the king is in good health and that he sends assurances of his sincere friendliness and attachment towards Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent. For this reason, she has become a controversial figure in Ottoman history subject to allegations of plotting against and manipulating her political rivals. Hurrem and Mahidevran had borne Suleiman six ehzades (Ottoman princes), four of whom survived past the 1550s: Mehmed, Selim, Bayezid, and Cihangir. In 1543, right after the sudden death of Prince Mehmet, the womens war started upagain. Where are the administrators of this page anyway? 113.203.146.216 (talk) 01:35, 27 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Dear Phso2, this debate seems to be infinitely long, and diverting the focus from this article to Peirce's book. The death of television icon Betty White received a lot of attention in popular culture. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. What matters is, as Nurbanu wasn't a legal wife, she was still a kadin; she is mentioned as a sultana in wikipedia because she became Valide Sultan. With many other revolutionary movements like these, she had started an era in Ottoman Empire called the Reign of Women. There was a seal on the back of the letter. This article is literally the ONLY one in wikipedia to call a hatun a sultana. An extra piece of information, in 15th century, the Tatars, Caucasians, Albanians, and Russians were all considered part of ""Circassia"". That same year ambassador Navagero wrote, It is impossible to describe how much he is loved and desired by all successors to the throne. Let me repeat it; why didn't popular culture ever mentioned another Hatun ranked consort a Sultan? In the 2003 TV miniseries, Hrrem Sultan, she was played by Turkish actress and singer Glben Ergen. Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.203.190.128 (talk) 20:25, 14 August 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], @Phso2 Hi, I am Worldandhistory. There is a possibility of both titles therefore no title should be put in. In 1520 after the death of Selim I, Suleiman moved to Istanbul to succeed his father, his court followed him afew weeks later. [4] Hurrem's influence on Suleiman was so significant that rumors circulated around the Ottoman court that the sultan had been bewitched.[5]. Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.248.138.199 (talk) 06:06, 14 October 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply], I removed a painting of Rosne Pranvere from the article. The Ottoman archives and privy purse records prove that she was Mahidevran Hatun, regardless that fact that she was the mother of the crown prince or had been once a favorite of Suleiman. +14 more. The motion that all these history books are dramatized or contain anachronism can't be true. In 1546, one more half-brother was on the governors market; Prince Beyazt. After that, although Hurrem's successor Nurbanu Sultan and her successor Safiye Sultan exchanged letters with queens, there is no other example of a female sultan who personally contacted a king other than Hurrem Sultan. Above all, her being mother of heir apparent is not a popular culture but a fact. If you are not convinced we can try to get this on reliable sources noticeboard. Suleiman probably feared the reaction of the army. Interviews of "alleged descendant" are not reliable sources for an history article, and the burden of demonstrating their reliability falls upon the editor who want to introduce them, as is written at WP:INTERVIEWS. In the end, they fought and Mahidevran beat Hrrem or Hrrem let herself be beaten. She often suffered from lack of money 2 until Suleimans death; Sultan Selim II later increased her income to help her. After the death of Suleiman's other sons and his ascension to the throne in 1520 she acquired the rank of mother of the Sultan's eldest son. Mahidevran's name ( Turkish pronunciation: [mahidevan], Persian: ) means "one who is always beautiful", "one whose beauty never fades" or "beauty of the times" in Persian. She is known to be a legal wife before Hurrem Sultan, but not so popular since Hurrem Sultan was the first "slave" to become a legal wife, hence, only Hurrem's being a legal wife is so popular. The title of this page should read as Mahidevran or Mahidevran Gulbahar. She was the chief consort of Suleiman before the appearance of Hrrem Sultan. Mahidevran Sultan once hit hurrem untill her face turned to a bloody puddle, something that didn't please the sultan. Hurrem also unlike Mahidevran Invalid memorial. The Ottoman Empire, 13001650: The Structure of Power. [49] Artists Titian, Melchior Lorich, and Sebald Beham were all influential in creating a visual representation of Roxelana. [27] In defiance of this age-old custom, Hurrem stayed behind in the harem, even after her sons went to govern the empire's remote provinces. In this article the sentence about Mahidevran's origin had been changed several times. Categories: 1500 births. In Albenian Glbahar means Rosne Pravnere. She did served as a "cheif consort" (bash Kadin) before Haseki Hurrem Sultan. Hatun is not a Title at all. 125.209.82.212 (talk) 13:40, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I agree with the latest proposal. Basic Books. 125.209.82.212 (talk) 15:03, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], We see that Birinci Kadin is what a woman who has bore a first child; you're overlooking what I said: it was Hurrem who married legally Suleyman and broke the 200 hundred tradition, not Mahidevran; in any case, she can't be called a sultana. This did not, however, prevent Hurrem from wielding powerful political influence. Copyright 2023 | MH Magazine WordPress Theme by MH Themes. The change of titles was to differentiate a legal wife from a concubine/consort/unrecognized wife or however you want to call it. And only after the release of the series Magnificent Century, where she was one of the main characters, various information about this sultana began to appear on the Internet.As Mahidevran's contemporaries wrote, in life she was a black-haired beauty with brown eyes. In attempting to avoid the execution of her sons, Hurrem used her influence to eliminate those who supported Mustafa's accession to the throne. Minna Rozen: A History of the Jewish Community in Istanbul, The Formative Years, 1453 1566 (2002). Hurrem Sultan makes plans to get rid of ehzade Mustafa and his mother Mahidevran Sultan as she sees them as a threat for the throne. It is clear you don't have the intention to make this wikipedia page historically accurate. WebA cause of death is determined by a medical examiner. There must be only one, with correct facts that inform people with the necessary information, and the reader, not the editor, is the one who makes the interpretation. I even request the deletion of dubious page of her alleged father but you are not admitting that you may be wrong here. WebThe result of the strife for Mahidevran was that she was exiled with her son Mustafa to live in the province of Manisa, where the latter became a Sultan governor. Note that I'm not saying that Mahidevran was not chief consort before the title Haseki came into use, but it's clear that she didn't continue to hold the title. According to him, Mahidevran Sultan was the daughter of Prince Idar Temryuk.Was it really so? Subscribe to our free weekly newsletter and stay up to date on History of Royal Women's articles! Hurrem or Khorram (Persian: ) means "the joyfull one" in Persian. Who were her parents? [20] She pleads with the King to trust her envoy Hassan Aa who took another message from her by word of mouth. ?--Phso2 (talk) 21:39, 26 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Hatun is used for every other lady in Turkish and Persian language. # 9. But with the same decree, Mustafa was appointed to govern Konya (middle Anatolia). Interviews are constantly being used in Wikipedia for every notable person, why neglect this one? [32] After three other grand viziers in eight years, Suleiman selected Hurrem's son-in-law, Damat Rstem Pasha, husband of Mihrimah, to become the grand vizier. These incidents launched a series of events which culminated in his execution in 1536 by Suleiman's order. [5] She was born in the town of Rohatyn 68km (42mi) southeast of Lww (Lviv), a major city of the Ruthenian Voivodeship of the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland,[6] in what is now Ukraine. We will review the memorials and decide if they should be merged. Since the empire lacked, until the reign of Ahmed I (16031617), any formal means of nominating a successor, successions usually involved the death of competing princes in order to avert civil unrest and rebellions. "Sultan" had many meanings throughout history and did reflect the status and the way of interacting of the times; if we want to accurately depict history then, at last, she's a "hatun". Bas kadin literally means "Head Woman", and if this "head woman" status didn't exist at that time then why she has been referred as "Ba kadin" or Birinci kadin by numerous books? Something that interests me is how a popular notion can sound very appealing. First of all, many claims as to what happened in the harem are comple I am giving you answer about Mahidevran Sultan's rank.According to reliable sources it is confirmed that Mahidevran Sultan was Suleiman's Bas kadin(chief consort or chief lady).This was for those women who bore the eldest male child of reigning Sultan.As Mahidevran Sultan was the mother of Sehzade Mustafa,eldest son of Suleiman the magnificent,it is very logical that she held the rank Bas kadin or Birinci Kadin,it's from me which is logical. In her first short letter to Sigismund II, Hurrem expresses her highest joy and congratulations to the new king on the occasion of his ascension to the Polish throne after the death of his father Sigismund I the Old in 1548. Hope you understand. Who thought it was acceptable to post this? If, however, you can get an admin to permanently block the page from any further editing you may do so. Also please keep the recent source in mind about an interview with her alleged descendant. I, lover of the tormented heart, Muhibbi of the eyes full of tears, I am happy. All the facts have been laid out but you still want to call Mahidevran a sultana when she wasn't: she didn't legally marry Suleyman, nor was the mother of a sultan. Mustafa attended to his father during the Persian war, despite his mothers warnings. She did not spend her last years in poverty, as her stepson, And Mahidevran was the proud mother of Sehzade Mustafa,who was the most potential and talented heir apparent to the throne.And Mahidevran was not like the other Consorts of Suleiman,like Gulfem or Fulane.After the death of the sons of other consorts by diseases She was the mother of only son of Suleiman the magnificent and according to the ottoman tradition sje was Suleiman's Bas kadin,which was the most powerful position for a Sultan's consort before creation and after abolition of the title Haseki Sultan.As Leslie P. Pierce said that during Suleiman's reign the title for Queen mother, Princesses and Sultan's chief consort changed to Sultan from Hatun.And other ordinary consorts of Sultan held the title Hatun.And Mahidevran Sultan was favorite and chief consort of Suleiman before hurrem,and she was the mother of crown prince of the ottoman empire. We have not seen another such example after 15th century of a Senior consort being not called Sultana. I already gave you all evidence, but you insist on calling her a sultana because you "assume" Birinci Kadin and Sultan mean the same: they are applied to concubine and legal wife accordingly and therefore don't mean the same. It is clear by your statement that you're being subjective about this: you're looking for an excuse rather than solid facts to call Mahidevran a sultana. As far as I knowWorldandhistory (talk) 09:53, 6 April 2016 (UTC) Simply putting Mahidevran in the title will be better. I am sorry but Facts do NOT leave room for doubts. It seems you consider a Talk page as a comment war section, well it's not. [11], Aside from her political concerns, Hurrem engaged in several major works of public buildings, from Makkah to Jerusalem (Al-Quds), perhaps modelling her charitable foundations in part after the caliph Harun al-Rashid's consort Zubaida. She built numerous mosques, madrasahs, hammams, and resting places for pilgrims travelling to the Islamic holy city of Makkah. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 05:20, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Also, let's not forget that many of those artistic/theatrical depictions are based on rumors and fictitious creations for the sake of entertainment. commercial banks of the capitalist states book; nicholas martin roosevelt; beiersdorf cleveland, tn closing; the difference between body, soul and spirit [6] 113.203.150.188 (talk) 02:19, 1 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Popular culture and Ottoman court etiquette are two different things. [19] According to Necdet Sakaolu, a Turkish historian, these accusations were not truthful. Why does she have sultan next to her name? And for your info, they all married the sultan and were legal wives, and those that weren't married were called hatun. [21], Around 1533/1534 (the exact date is unknown),[11] Suleiman married Hurrem in a magnificent formal ceremony. I badly need a reliable source to back either claim. In the times of Suleyman, not everyone could be addressed that way. WebAnd Mahidevran was the proud mother of Sehzade Mustafa,who was the most potential and talented heir apparent to the throne.And Mahidevran was not like the other Consorts of It was not because Hafsa Sultan was firmly against this unification, but because it was not allowed for a concubine to rise above the status of the Valide Sultan (Queen Mother). Our ancestors said that the plague goes away once the trees shed their leaves in autumn."[26]. Mahidevran and Mustafa lost one more time, now Selim (the second son of Hrrem) became the governor of the Manisa. All these authors could've have used this phrase simply because they didn't know what the real father's name was, like I said "this name was and is very common for any royal family as well as a common family in any Islamic dynasty." On the contrary, I sympathize with Mahidevran Hatun. She became one of the most powerful and influential women in Ottoman history as well as a prominent and controversial figure during the era known as the Sultanate of Women. Therefore they can't be used. In official account, not all consorts who was referred as SULTANA was legally married to Sultan nor was the Valide Sultan. Timaru, 7910 I asked a simple question and you failed to answer because you cant. This page was last edited on 16 January 2023, at 12:59. The reason I call for a page title is to respect Ottoman customs and history, nothing more. Khondoker Jobair (talk) 06:10, 16 February 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], I think you are mistaken my friend,,Mahidevran Sultan was the first chief consort and the proud mother Sehzade mustafa,the most potential heir apparent of the throne for succesion of his father.And you are saying that she was not even a concubine??? I shall wait for your response until few days then revert your changes, if you are unable to prove that this "Abdullah" was indeed a slave and not a free person, in which case, M would have been a "gifted wife" (married to S not legally but rather tough Nikah 'urfi). Worldandhistory (talk) 00:10, 25 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], You did not answer my first point, no where in the article does it say she belonged to a noble family, the article is now free from any claims of her being scion, the article simply focuses on her origins. .mw-parser-output .brokenref{display:none}Cite error: There are tags on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist|group=note}} template (see the help page). [22] Nurbanu died in December 1583. For the first and only time in the Ottoman Empire, a female sultan exchanged letters with a king. Here are some sources (regardless of their nature) they contradicts the motion that she wasn't called Sultan. Despite Mahidevrans warnings, he stayed in close contact with the other princes. [9], During the reign of Selim I,[10] which means some time between 1512 and 1520, Crimean Tatars kidnapped her during one of their CrimeanNogai slave raids in Eastern Europe. Please, change the title to simply "Mahidevran"; all the other speculation can remain in the biography part. 190.218.117.86 (talk) 01:30, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Actually you are the one making subjective propositions here. Chteau de Blois A favourite royal residence, The Daughters of William the Silent Emilia Antwerpiana of Nassau. The name Abdullah may be used as a generic patronymic (father's name) for slave converts but this name was and is very common for any royal family as well as a common family in any Islamic dynasty. Circassian or Albanian? People have done a great job depicting fake ottoman culture. And there is lots of lots of doubts about the title of this woman. Hurrem and Mahidevran were 2 main consorts. -Le temps viendra (talk) 22:32, 10 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], Clear this matter Le temps Viendra Khondoker Jobair (talk) 05:03, 12 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], Mentioned her survival possible after Hurrem a death is not sound real. For the series' last season, she is portrayed by Turkish actress Vahide Perin. WebAuthor has 325 answers and 6.9M answer views Oct 9. Yes, it was and the series shouldve put more emphasis on Valide Sultanas criticism of her behaviour. Hurrem and Mahidevran really did fight, but Mahidevran madegreat efforts to protect her only son from assassinations, but she could not prevent his death. [41], Hurrem is known to have been very generous to the poor. Specially every Circassion origin theory. Nurbanus mosque was the first constructed in the capital by a woman of the dynasty to have two minarets. If you all come to an agreement earlier let me know. [41] Hurrem was also intelligent and had a pleasant personality. Uzunarl, smail Hakk; Karal, Enver Ziya (1975). Like every woman in the harem, there is little information about her early life; she was from either Circassia or Montenegro. Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.218.117.86 (talk) 20:17, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], The other wives, also not legally married to the sultan, were called "kadin" or "hatun". He appointed to govern Konya instead of Mustafa. Hurrem's contemporaries describe her as a woman who was strikingly good-looking, and different from everybody else because of her red hair. Pathetic joke!! If you are, however, still convinced that only Peirce's book is authentic source for the Ottomans, try putting this "concubinage" information in Ottoman Empire in details as explained by Leslie and see the response of Turks and Ottoman followers by yourself. Please see meaning of "Birinci Kadin" in whatever Ottoman Dictionary you like. She was the first imperial consort to receive the title Haseki Sultan. [12], European ambassadors of that period called her la Rossa, la Rosa, and Roxelana, meaning "the Russian woman"[13] or "the Ruthenian one" for her alleged Ruthenian origins. Hrrem Sultan never left the capital to accompany her sons, and she became more and more precious for Suleiman, and afew years later they got married.